The Gospel According to The Jeffersons – The Power of Your Voice

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Writer Norman Lear created some awesome classics: “Good Times”, “Maude”, “One Day at A Time”, and more. But today, let’s focus on a particular show, “The Jeffersons.” The Jeffersons, a middle-class family based in New York, included George Jeffersons (Sherman Hemsley), Louise (Weezy) Jefferson (Isabell Sanford), and Lionel Jefferson (Michael Evans). The Jeffersons were neighbors to the Bunkers.

Norman Lear also created the controversial show “All in the Family” that ran for nine seasons (1971-1979), which was followed with a spin-off months later called “Archies Place” that last until 1983. “All in the Family”, starred Carroll O’Connor, Jean Stapleton, Sally Struthers, and Rob Reiner; Archie Bunker, his wife, daughter, and son-in-law.

Archie Bunker was a man that we can recognize even more in today’s political climate. Bunker was a racist, prejudice White man that believed the world was his oyster. He constantly argued with his wife and daughter and especially with his son-in-law Michael often called Meathead. But the larger conflict was with his neighbors, the Jeffersons, especially George Jefferson. Norman Lear made sure he addressed issues and forced conversations to take place in the 1970s-1980s that people never would talk about on the air. 

As the show progressed, the Jeffersons move to the 12th floor of a Manhattan, New York 3bd room apartment known as Apt 12D. George Jefferson’s successful cleaners, Jefferson Cleaners, had multiple locations and was doing well… so well that his wife Louise no longer had to be a maid. The Jeffersons met their new neighbors The Willis’: Tom a successful book publisher, and his wife, Helen who came from an influential African-American family. Norman Lear kicked the episode off by addressing the Willis’ interracial marriage, the n-word, and the word honky. They concluded that episode by showing the Willis’ kissing each other which again inevitably forced America to have tough conversations.

Appearances were made by George’s mother, Mrs. Jefferson whose character had a major conflict with daughter-in-law Louise. Mrs. Jeffersons saw no wrong in her son. Even when Louise would rarely agree with her mother-in-law, Mrs. Jefferson would then disagree with her initial stance just to not agree with her. They brought on Florence Johnston (Marla Gibbs) as a part-time maid. The ratings were doing pretty well in the 70s. Zara Cully (Mother Jefferson) was diagnosed with a terminal illness and the cast knew their time with Zara would be short.

After the first season, Michael Evans (Lionel) went back to working on his show that he co-created “Good Times.” At the time, Marla Gibbs was working as a flight attendant at United Airlines while playing a part-time maid as Florence. To replace the void of Mother Jefferson; the producers decided to ask Marla Gibbs if she still worked for the airlines, which she said of course.  Producers said I thought you quit and Marla Gibbs responded, “Why would I, you have not given me a reason to… unless there’s something you want to tell me.” The producer asked her how much was she getting paid to work at United Airlines? Once Gibbs told them her wages from the Airline; they agreed to pay her part-time wage with the show and pay her salary at the airlines. And Gibbs decided to leave the airlines and never regretted it. The show decided to write Florence in as a live-in maid. 

The ratings were on a good path, but CBS decided to move the show multiple times to different time slots. Marla Gibbs said, “If you leave the show in one spot the people can find us.” Well, of course, CBS moving the popular show to different time slots impacted ratings and they dropped significantly. Sherman Hemsley pushed to get Black writers on the show. Norman Lear had done an amazing job creating the show but the writers were becoming out of touch. CBS was in the era of Knots Landing and Hotel & Dallas, and they wanted to silent the Black voice. When “The Jeffersons” hired more Black writers they hit topics like KKK and other important topics again and the show became funnier and the ratings went up to #1. Michael Evans returned to “The Jeffersons” as Lionel. I failed to mention that the second Lionel was played by Damon Evans (no relation to Michael). But Damon had never seen “The Jefferson” before when he got the job.  Damon asked if he could watch some episodes so he can learn and get familiar with Lionel’s character, but he was told by producers to just create your own Lionel. That explains why their characters were completely different. They set Damon up for failure and he never really connected with the cast like Michael did. 

A few things people may not know about The Jeffersons

1. Sherman Hemsley was an introvert and very shy and only opened up for the camera. He also was known as one of the kindest and giving persons. He would even buy lunch to feed other staff that he thought were not fed properly.

2. Isabel Sanford was the main character, not George.  The show was about her life transcending from “All in the Family” to “The Jeffersons.” It is also why her name is first on the credits and she had the most lines

3. Sherman Hemsley and Isabel Sanford did not get along with each other for a long time at the fault of Isabel.

4. Isabel Sanford & Zara Cully (Mother Jefferson) were really close in real life.

5. Ja’net Dubois (aka Willona Woods from Good Times) was not just the singer of The Jeffersons Theme song “Moving on Up”, but she was also the co-composer of the song with Jeff Barry.

6. The Jeffersons was on for 11 Seasons from 1975-1985. It is the 2nd longest-running African-American after Tyler Perry’s House of Payne. The Jeffersons was canceled with no big send-off like MASH. One of the most popular and groundbreaking shows during that era was literally just canceled. They were never notified properly. They found out the show was canceled by reading it in the newspaper.

The Power of Our Voice

For years CBS tried to control the voice of the Black Voice of “The Jeffersons”. The cast, along with Norman Lear and Sherman Hemsley, fought to have a voice and ratings only peaked when they had their own voice. 

The power of Oprah Winfrey was proven when she bought Harpo Studio in Chicago. It’s one thing to have your own show, but it’s another to own the studio where you do your own show. The latter translates into major control over what you have and the power of your own voice. 

If we own the studio we own you is the ideology and reality for many of our Black creatives and producers. The real fear was that if Oprah owned her own studio then one day she may own her own Network. Many years later, Tyler Perry was able to use his voice on a larger platform in a similar fashion. Although he doesn’t have his own Network, he owns his own studio; therefore, he controls the narrative of his work and has power over his voice.

Four years before The Jeffersons ended, Isabel Sanford became the second Black actress to win a Primetime Emmy Award and the first to win Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy Series. After The Jeffersons ended, she played many roles on African-American shows such as “Living Single” & “The Fresh Prince”. Marla Gibbs starred in 227 and went on to play in many others roles on TV shows and movies. Sherman Hemsley starred in the TV show Amen and also played in many other roles, such as Martin & The Fresh Prince.

Most of the main cast has passed away with exception of Marla Gibbs and Berlinda Tolbert (Jenny Willis Jefferson). Sherman Hemsley, who helped so many people that took advantage of him, died alone in his modest home in El Palso, Texas in 2012 worth only $50,000. Nonetheless, TV history shows us that despite being disgracefully canceled, “The Jeffersons” voice and perspective created a bridge that made “The Cosby Show” possible in 1984. And the success of “The Cosby Show paved the way for “A Different World”, “Martin”, “Living Single”, “The Fresh Prince”, and so on. Wealthy African-American families dealing with and addressing real issues that impact them daily was much needed on the big screen during that time.

I am sure you are curious… what in the world is the point or the connection? The network gave “The Jeffersons” a chance because of Norman Lear, but as it succeeded CBS tried to muzzle and control their voice. However, because the cast fought for their voice there were many successful TV African-American family shows to follow. In 2020, the White House, Justice Department, US Congress, Supreme Court, state and local politicians alike, are doing everything in their power to muzzle and control our voices. Your VOTE is your voice. Just like “The Jeffersons”, if you have a voice it will speak for generations and open a bridge for others to follow in your footsteps. Do not let anyone steal, stop, or muzzle your voice. Control your narrative.

Black Panther Is Our Solar Eclipse

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“The representation of black people in Hollywood, from actors to writers to directors to cameramen, pales in comparison to white representation. However, as when given the right path the Moon can eclipse the Sun, black talent can loom just as large as their white colleagues.” 

Back on August 21, 2017, a lot of folks, mostly white folks, woke up giddy as schoolgirls for what was going to be a very special day. What was all the excitement about? Well for the first time in 100 years the entire contiguous United States would experience a full solar eclipse. [A solar eclipse occurs when the Moon passes between the Sun and Earth, and by doing so the Moon fully or partially blocks the Sun.] In the words of Jay Z, it’s “lights out ladies” for about two minutes, and then its back to the regularly scheduled program. Millions of people brought special glasses because you can’t look directly into the Sun (cough Donald Trump), thousands traveled hundreds of miles to certain areas in the country to catch a glimpse of the total blockage of the Sun as opposed to a partial blockage – all of that for two minutes of joy. Granted the next eclipse expected to cover the entire US again won’t come until 2024 and then not until 2045, so one can understand why all the activity. And speaking of Trump, isn’t it really embarrassing our idiot president was out there looking at the eclipse holding his hands above his eyes and painfully squinting looking directly at the sun! With his wife beside him with the proper solar eclipse glasses on!

While the buildup for the solar eclipse was taking place, most didn’t understand the hype around it. A lot of black folk didn’t understand why white folk were getting so excited. The excitement should have been across racial lines; but this is America and there’s always a race factor. An eclipse is not only something to experience because of the rarity of the event, but it’s also the amazement that the Moon being 400 times smaller than the Sun can block the Sun and cause a total blackout – even if only for a few moments.

So now for what’s been a trending topic for some time and will continue to be, and no I’m not talking about that terrible rendition of the National Anthem Fergie did during the NBA All-Star game. I’m talking about the release of the movie “Black Panther.” By now you’ve probably read dozens of articles regarding the movie that have quite the range of topics and intent. Most have been lighthearted and fun like comparing “Black Panther” characters to Black Greek organizations, or to the Spike Lee heavy-handed styled articles in which folk are caught in their feelings about moviegoers wearing African garb and not fully knowing their history and purpose of said garb. [Side note, Killmonger would have supposedly pledged my frat, given his Black Panther suit was the flyest outfit in the movie, makes sense.]

For those who have a problem with people wearing African attire to see “Black Panther,” stop it! I can bet dollars to donuts the same people upset about African attire being worn are the same people who only bring that one bag of half-melted ice to the cookout, talks about how overcooked the food is”; yet, walks away with the most plates. So, let’s not mind them.

“Black Panther,” its success, and the celebratory feeling around it got me thinking it was akin to last summer’s eclipse. For months there’s been a buildup of excitement and eagerness for the release of the movie, much like there was for the solar eclipse. “Black Panther,” with a majority black cast filled with subliminal messages as well overt black issues, has already broken many box office records. The representation of black people in Hollywood, from actors to writers to directors to cameraman, pales in comparison to white people. However, like the Moon, when given the right path, black people can loom just as large as their white colleagues. Like the rarity of a solar eclipse in a specific location around the world, in the United States, the rarity for black people to circle around a positive event is sporadic.

Many Black people did not understand the jubilance around the solar eclipse just like many non-Black people will not understand the excitement our community felt when “Black Panther” was released, not to mention the rush to discuss every scene and cultural nuances in detail. Nuances and issues from the division between Black people in the Americas vs Native Africans, to African nations historically having agendas rooted in rarely wanting to mettle in affairs outside their own borders. Many non-Black people and even some Black people will say, “It’s just a movie, it’s not that serious,” and how can all of that be derived from a movie? This is true, inevitably it’s just a Hollywood movie about fictional characters and a fictional place – only so much should be taken from it. In comparison, a solar eclipse has been documented to have little or no impact over the area it passes. Granted, it’s how one judges impact. Impact doesn’t have to be permanent. Impact is equally about the attention and resonation something gives. A solar eclipse quickly happens, and if not timed right one can easily miss it. The celebratory feel for “Black Panther” will promptly leave as well and some will miss it. It will be up to those who traveled far and away, brought special glasses, and wore event T-shirts and saw the spectacle to tell others what they missed out on and why it’s vital to not miss it again. But as history has shown us with the solar eclipse, it usually takes a while for something that special to happen again.

This article was originally published on 22 February 2018. 

Ricky Gervais: Hollywood Court Jester

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A King is omnipotent. He cannot be questioned or challenged.

According to Sun Tzu, exuding supreme confidence is essential for victory; an enemy must never even perceive a chance to win. This is why many Kings project confidence at all times and never apologize.

However, once a King achieves power and influence beyond question or challenge, what happens if he acts or decides in a manner that is self-harming or detrimental to himself or his Kingdom? The Court Jester was a mechanism to perhaps mitigate such a situation.

An expert Court Jester could point out flaws of the King or the King’s Court in a humorous, seemingly innocuous manner, never earning the ire or Axe of the king. In this way, problems could be at least addressed, possibly considered, and at best resolved. It was a form of therapy for such a precarious system of governing, particularly for the laborers and peasants who were unable to express any malcontent with their monarch.

Although Kings have mostly disappeared from the world and been replaced by more Democratic systems of rule (at least in appearance), there still remains the archetype of “Kingship” mostly in the realm of the rich and famous.

Specifically in the art world, when these modern Kings rise to the level of unquestioned and unchallenged behavior, they can often do the most damage, particularly to themselves. Consider Elvis (The King), Michael Jackson (The King of Pop), and Prince (uhhhh… Prince) who all died of drug overdoses at some point after they rose to levels of wealth and power at which nobody could tell them, “No.”

So if Hollywood is the King of Pop Culture right now, Ricky Gervais is Hollywood’s Court Jester.

His monologue at the Golden Globes was everything that most of America would like to say to these “royal” people who are admired, powerful, talented, and beyond question or challenge, but cannot.

I personally loved every bit of his monologue and found none of it offensive (although none of it was directed at me, I admit). Nonetheless, I think we need Ricky Gervais more than ever right now, particularly when most of the country feels powerless and held hostage to the extremes of the Right and Left.

No movement, however virtuous, is infallible. If an idea or group is unable to be criticized or questioned, then that group is essentially invincible (like the King) and could ultimately use this power malignantly. The very idea of “untouchable” or “beyond reproach” is what someone like Ricky Gervais fights against. This explains why he has upset members of the LGBTQ community in his career as he has lambasted them along with every other group in existence.

To empathize with Mr. Gervais, I would agree that you have not truly earned equal rights until you can be ridiculed freely as the rest of us are. That’s why the term is “equal” rights and not “more than” rights.

So, for anyone who may have been offended by the Golden Globes monologue last weekend, let me go over his jokes a little for your consideration. Maybe this will help illuminate the necessity of such a Jester in our current socio-political climate.

I will also give Mr. Gervais a bit of criticism as well which, if you read his Twitter Account, he welcomes enthusiastically even going so far as to retweet bad reviews of himself or his shows; lest he ever becomes anything like the “King” he is currently so adept at criticizing.

Ricky’s jokes followed by my commentary:

Kevin Hart was fired from the Oscars for some offensive tweets — hello?

Pointing at himself, Gervais seems to question the double standard of preventing a black man from hosting an award show on account of anti-LGBTQ content, when a white man can post incredibly incendiary content and still host.

Maybe NBC is just braver than ABC – or more hungry for those controversy ratings?

Or maybe there is a stronger degree of wrongdoing by Hart who seemed to express genuinely anti-gay sentiments while Gervais simply ridicules LGBTQ out of the principle that everyone deserves to be ridiculed and nobody is above a joke, particularly when it comes from a place of inclusion and not malice?

Lucky for me, the Hollywood Foreign Press can barely speak English and they’ve no idea what Twitter is, so I got offered this gig by fax. 

Obviously, he’s coming up with an outlandish explanation for why he was chosen to host in spite of his provocative Twitter comments and pretending that the HFP, who all live in Southern California, are literally Foreign and can’t speak English.

Let’s go out with a bang, let’s have a laugh at your expense. 

Yes, surely the most privileged people in the world can be the butt of a joke.

Remember, they’re just jokes. We’re all gonna die soon and there’s no sequel, so remember that.

Characteristic Gervais throwing a bit of his atheism into it.

But you all look lovely all dolled up. You came here in your limos. I came here in a limo tonight and the license plate was made by Felicity Huffman. 

The ultimate symbol of White Privilege finally facing justice. How could this crowd defend her?

No, shush. It’s her daughter I feel sorry for. OK? That must be the most embarrassing thing that’s ever happened to her. And her dad was in Wild Hogs.

While it is low-hanging fruit-making fun of an actor in a bad movie, it’s still funny to wonder who the daughter considers a worse parent: the one in jail or the one in a horrible film?

Lots of big celebrities here tonight. Legends. Icons. This table alone — Al Pacino, Robert DeNiro … Baby Yoda. Oh, that’s Joe Pesci, sorry. I love you man. Don’t have me whacked. 

Appearance-mockery and pop culture reference in one joke… not very funny to me, but worked well enough for his crowd.

But tonight isn’t just about the people in front of the camera. In this room are some of the most important TV and film executives in the world. People from every background. They all have one thing in common: They’re all terrified of Ronan Farrow. He’s coming for ya. 

Nervous laughter. Yeah, Farrow doesn’t mess around. He is out to shine light on the cockroaches of society and Hollywood is having its turn.

Talking of all you perverts, it was a big year for pedophile movies. Surviving R. Kelly, Leaving Neverland, Two Popes. Shut up. Shut up. I don’t care. I don’t care.

Even Catholics can’t escape the shadow of thousands – THOUSANDS – of covered up child molestation cases in just the last century alone. This is speaking truth to power and it’s not actually funny except that it’s David attacking Goliath so brazenly right in front of the Philistines.

This was the innocent child yelling: “The Emperor has no clothes!!!”

Many talented people of color were snubbed in major categories. Unfortunately, there’s nothing we can do about that. Hollywood Foreign Press are all very racist. 

They are all international journalists.

We were going to do an In Memoriam this year, but when I saw the list of people who died, it wasn’t diverse enough. No, it was mostly white people and I thought, nah, not on my watch. Maybe next year. Let’s see what happens.

Increasing diversity in film has been one of the greatest achievements of this last decade. Black Panther alone will do more for young black kids who want to fantasize about themselves as the hero and aspire to be greater than any token character of the last century.

However, as Bill Burr labels it, “Overcorrection” can happen.

This joke simply warns about trying to apply the morality of “ensuring diversity” to every aspect of every part of the industry (like the In Memoriam).

I imagine a film about the Harlem Globetrotters will probably not require a quota of x amount of Asian, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, and White actors to play the roles of historically Black athletes from one of the most famously Black areas of the country.

No one cares about movies anymore. No one goes to cinema, no one really watches network TV. Everyone is watching Netflix. This show should just be me coming out, going, “Well done Netflix. You win everything. Good night.” But no, we got to drag it out for three hours.

Poignant. True.

You could binge-watch the entire first season of Afterlife instead of watching this show. That’s a show about a man who wants to kill himself ’cause his wife dies of cancer and it’s still more fun than this. 

Shameless plug.

Spoiler alert, season two is on the way so in the end he obviously didn’t kill himself. Just like Jeffrey Epstein. Shut up. I know he’s your friend but I don’t care.

Hilarious. True. I wonder how many in this room have been to his island or on his plane.

Seriously, most films are awful. Lazy. Remakes, sequels. I’ve heard a rumor there might be a sequel to Sophie’s Choice. I mean, that would just be Meryl just going, “Well, it’s gotta be this one then.” 

Low hanging fruit. It worked. Good for levity – which was surprisingly needed in such a brutally damning monologue.

All the best actors have jumped to Netflix, HBO. And the actors who just do Hollywood movies now do fantasy-adventure nonsense. They wear masks and capes and really tight costumes. Their job isn’t acting anymore. It’s going to the gym twice a day and taking steroids, really. Have we got an award for most ripped junky? No point, we’d know who’d win that.

I still don’t know who he means by this. Also, I whole-heartedly disagree with him and Scorsese about this. These superhero movies are for kids. Netflix is killing the budgets and demands for original, well-made quality movies in big theaters, not superhero movies.

Martin Scorsese made the news for his controversial comments about the Marvel franchise. He said they’re not real cinema and they remind him about theme parks. 

Ha. I know my children will all watch Goodfellas, Taxi Driver, Gangs of New York, and Shutter Island on repeat until they are 16 and old enough for Marvel Movies.

I agree. Although I don’t know what he’s doing hanging around theme parks. He’s not big enough to go on the rides. He’s tiny. 

A size joke is seemingly juvenile… but so is picking on kid’s movies when you are the greatest living director! So, well done.

The Irishman was amazing. It was amazing. It was great. Long, but amazing. It wasn’t the only epic movie. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, nearly three hours long. Leonardo DiCaprio attended the premiere and by the end, his date was too old for him. Even Prince Andrew was like, “Come on, Leo, mate. You’re nearly 50-something.”

Low hanging fruit, again.

The world got to see James Corden as a fat pussy. He was also in the movie Cats. 

Gervais really seems to hate Corden, at least in his comedy. After Life (which is pure brilliance) lambasts Corden also. I often find this problem with extremely intellectual people: they tend to cynically and inaccurately portray the heavily visceral artists and performers. It’s the “Lennon is great and McCartney sucks!” people.

There are a lot of colors in the rainbow, Ricky. What you may consider banal is often just a conduit for energy. Sometimes, “How’s the weather?” conversations are one person really just saying, “I care about you and just want to make sounds in your direction.” Go to a Coldplay concert. It’s beautiful in a different way from Tom Waits or Frank Zappa. Hierarchies are for fascists.

No one saw that movie (Cats). And the reviews, shocking. I saw one that said, “This is the worst thing to happen to cats since dogs.” But Dame Judi Dench defended the film saying it was the film she was born to play because she loves nothing better than plunking herself down on the carpet, lifting her leg and licking her minge. (Coughs.) Hairball. She’s old-school.

Now, it would have been even more outrageous and absurd if Mr. Gervais had this level of obscene mockery directed at Meryl Streep who was in the room, but Dame Judy Dench was a fine target for the harshest roast of the night.

Apple roared into the TV game with The Morning Show, a superb drama about the importance of dignity and doing the right thing, made by a company that runs sweatshops in China. Well, you say you’re woke but the companies you work for in China — unbelievable. Apple, Amazon, Disney. If ISIS started a streaming service you’d call your agent, wouldn’t you?

Dead on. Truth to power. Thank you, Ricky Gervais.

So if you do win an award tonight, don’t use it as a platform to make a political speech. You’re in no position to lecture the public about anything. You know nothing about the real world. Most of you spent less time in school than Greta Thunberg.

So if you win, come up, accept your little award, thank your agent, and your God and fuck off, OK?

This kind of sums up the mentality of most Americans and touches on why Trump won the election. They don’t trust Democrats or the Hollywood elite who are so clearly hypocrites.

Most Americans love Hollywood and what it has done for the world, but if it wants to remain King, it must listen to its Court Jester: Mr. Ricky Gervais.

Watch the entire 2020 Golden Globes by Ricky Gervais:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCNdTLHZAeo

Spike Lee’s Oscar… A Different Perspective

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Spike Lee and Lessons From Drake…

Spike Lee finally won an Oscar at the 91st Academy Awards. Long time coming and well deserved. His film, BlacKkKlannsman, landed three nominations and Best Adapted Screenplay proved to be the winner. I must admit, I was somewhat shocked to see his jubilant reaction to winning his first Oscar. Maybe Barbra Streisand’s introduction, and Samuel L. Jackson, who appeared in some of Lee’s first movies, presenting the actual award contributed to the adulation and overflowing of emotions that overcame him when he realized he had won. But after watching him celebrate, dance, and jump-hug Sam Jackson, I couldn’t help but think about Drake’s acceptance speech at the Grammy’s just weeks previous when he won for Best Rap Song…

“If there’s people who have regular jobs who are coming out in the rain, in the snow, spending their hard earned money to buy tickets to come to your shows, you don’t need this right here, I promise you that. You already won.” – Drake 

“You don’t need this right here… you already won.”

Of course, he was referring to his Grammy award. Whether he won or lost, it’s safe to say Drake was going to be ok. His message to up and coming artists was that you essentially don’t need this award, or any award for that matter, to validate your success or greatness… you’ve already won. When you factor in valid critiques of racism regarding Hollywood’s unwillingness to recognize African-American artists on stage and talent in front of and behind the camera, Drake’s comments truly hit home. Ironically, his mic was cut shortly thereafter and we couldn’t hear the rest of this speech.

So while I’m happy for Spike, deep down I wish he would’ve given a similar speech as Drake and kept his composure. As someone who’s been very outspoken about social justice, institutional racism and equity in Hollywood, his reaction screamed finally accepted… recognition that I belong. Such a response gives too much power to the Academy and institution which has failed over and over to recognize his talent and the talent of others who look like him. Why not take a Drake approach… because before people were coming out in the rain and spending their hard earned money to see Drake, they were doing it for Spike. 

Do the Right Thing, Jungle Fever, Malcolm X, He Got Game, Inside Man, Love and Basketball… the list is long.

Spike has been winning for a long time… whether he knows it or not. We’re not here to judge Spike, but future Spike Lee’s of all ages, races, and cultures, watched his acceptance speech. We just hope they realize their greatness and power long before receiving an award that might not come for 30 years… 30 years after their fans have already recognized their talent and deemed them great.